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Socrates: The disgrace begins when a man writes not well, but badly. Phaedrus: Clearly. Socrates: And what is well and what is badly—need we ask Lysias, or any other poet or orator, who ever wrote or will write either a political or any other work, in metre or out of metre, poet or prose writer, to teach us this?

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258d | paraphrased in Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance by Robert M. Pirsig:  "And what is good, Phaedrus, and what is not good—need we ask anyone to tell us these things?"

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